should have done

Question

“He should have done it” is known to have the meaning, “He was supposed to do it, but he did not.”

But in the following passages, the “should have done” seems to mean something different.

The meaning of “He should have done it” in the following passages seem to be “He actually did/had done it”.

Am I thinking wrong?

Here are some examples…

If anyone was too good to die, it was Jesus. If anyone should have done greater things than walking dusty roads and talking with people too dense to understand him, it was Jesus. http://girltalk.blogs.com/

-----> “If anyone should have done greater things” seems to mean “If anyone had done greater things”

If Y2K should have done one thing it would be to teach customers the dangers of being tied to a software provider who could say "oh yes we know, tough shit, upgrade for $1M". I'm not sure it did.

http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/05/0216220&from=rss

-----> If Y2K should have done one thing = If Y2K had done one thing

If he should have done this, they would praise him.

http://www.baylor.edu/content/services/document.php/54372.pdf

------> If he should have done this, = If he had done this

No - what she did get (not any more then) was a big and clearly stated warning that the account was going to be renewed and a link to where she could go and "renew it". Now if she should have done so - would we have been charged twice? Would she have received an oridnary account or what?

http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=3182386

------> if she should have done so = if she had done so

Huevos · Accepted Answer

My feel for these sentences is that the writer believes that the if clause was not fulfilled in any of them.

Mr Wordy · Answer

"Should" can be used with "if" to indicate a hypothetical future action, or a past action that might have happened but didn't, without any "ought to"/"supposed to" implication (I think this is a subjunctive use, but grammatical terminology is not my greatest strength!). To me, this usage is formal, or, especially in the past tense, old-fashioned. Typical examples:

If you should see her, tell her I miss her = If you see her, tell her I miss her

If he should try to sue me, he'll regret it = If he tries to sue me, he'll regret it

And, as you say,

Now if she should have done so - would we have been charged twice? = If she had done so ...

If he should have done this, they would praise him. = If he had done this, they would praise him.

As far as your other examples are concerned:

If Y2K should have done one thing it would be to teach customers the dangers of being tied to a software provider who could say "oh yes we know, tough ***, upgrade for $1M". I'm not sure it did.

To me, this has the "ought to" meaning: Y2K ought to have done this, but it probably didn't. I'm inclined to this interpretation because of "I'm not sure it did", and also because the rest of the sentence is not written in the formal/old-fashioned style that I'd expect from someone using "should have done" in the other sense.

If anyone was too good to die, it was Jesus. If anyone should have done greater things than walking dusty roads and talking with people too dense to understand him, it was Jesus.

I'm not sure what the author means here. I naturally read the "ought to" meaning: he ought to have done greater things, but he didn't. But it seems an odd thing to say.

Marius Hancu · Answer

Pructus:

Now if she should have done so - would we have been charged twice? = If she had done so ...

If he should have done this, they would praise him. = If he had done this, they would praise him.

Mr. Wordy is giving you the standard English versions on the right. As I've told you already, what you have on the left is considered non-standard these days (no should/would in the if clause). Use the link I gave you, and don't lose your time on non-standard stuff such as this. Write a paper like this and it will be rejected today.

Marius Hancu · Answer

Mr. Wordy said:
------
If anyone was too good to die, it was Jesus. If anyone should have done greater things than walking dusty roads and talking with people too dense to understand him, it was Jesus.
I'm not sure what the author means here. I naturally read the "ought to" meaning: he ought to have done greater things, but he didn't. But it seems an odd thing to say.

--------

I agree it's the "ought to" meaning. According to the destiny/fate perhaps, he/Jesus ought to have done greater things, (but his fate destiny/changed because of the people/mortals???). Not that strange to me.

Pructus · Answer

My thanks to all of you, Huevos, Mr Wordy and Marius !!

If Y2K should have done one thing it would be to teach customers the dangers of being tied to a software provider who could say "oh yes we know, tough ***, upgrade for $1M". I'm not sure it did.

-----------> Isn't it natural to understand this one as meaning "If Y2K had done one thing, it would be to teach ~ ~"

It seems to be saying that atter Y2K, people now knows what to do, and what not to do…

If anyone should have done greater things than walking dusty roads and talking with people too dense to understand him, it was Jesus.
------------> This one is saying, "It was Jesus." in past tense. So, this one seems, to me, to be saying that, "If anyone had done greater things than ~~~, it was Jesus who did it."

Marius Hancu · Answer

>"If anyone had done greater things than ~~~, it was Jesus who did it."
You're right about the end, but the first part should be:
If anyone ought to have done greater things than walking dusty roads and talking with people too dense to understand him, it was Jesus."
or:
If anyone had [past for must] to do greater things than walking dusty roads and talking with people too dense to understand him, it was Jesus."
thus this should have has the meaning ought to have/had to

Pructus · Answer

--

Marius Hancu · Answer

>So, I want to say that, "If he that kind of thing, he will meet so and so consequences.
This is present/future, not past.

If he does that kind of thing, he will meet so and so consequences. [perfectly OK
If you want to put more doubt on him doing that try:
If he were to do that kind of thing, he will meet so and so consequences.
Were he to do that kind of thing, he will meet so and so consequences.
This is all present/future time, not past. Perhaps Mr. Wordy has other suggestions.
BTW, were is allowed in if clauses.

Marius Hancu · Answer

If you want to put more doubt on him doing that you could also say:
(This is present/future, not past.)
In my opinion, should he do that kind of thing, he will meet so and so consequences.
which could considered in BrE to be coloured-future (i.e. something colored by your emotions/opinions, see:

SHALL AND WILL

Rule 2. The Coloured-Future System

http://www.bartleby.com/116/213.html#2
This part in Fowler is the absolute authority on traditional/prescriptive should in BrE usage, as I understand, but it's not easy to read, but I've found it of great help when reading classical English novels.

BTW, as you see, there's no if in this version, thus should can be used in that clause in standard speech, with the inversion causing the conditional meaning.
This version may be more BrE than AmE.

Mr Wordy · Answer

pructusIt seems to be saying that atter Y2K, people now knows what to do, and what not to do…

To me, no, and this is confirmed by the fact that he explicitly says "I'm not sure it did".

pructusIf anyone should have done greater things than walking dusty roads and talking with people too dense to understand him, it was Jesus.
------------> This one is saying, "It was Jesus." in past tense. So, this one seems, to me, to be saying that, "If anyone had done greater things than ~~~, it was Jesus who did it."

The use of the past tense does not preclude the "ought to" meaning. Randomly Googled through Book Search:

If anyone should have known, it was the designer. A designer's role is to inspect installations and to recommend any necessary precautions to preserve them.

Clearly the "ought to have known" meaning is intended.

should have done

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