SuperESL Posted 14 years ago
Grammar
NYTimes critique
The New York Times has a blog where they critique lapses in grammar and language usage committed by the newspaper's own writers. In the most recent entry are the following two examples:
(1) "The Stanford researchers said that by providing an objective review of the current science of organic foods, their goal was to allow people to make informed choices."
"[Critique:] A dangler: 'their goal' isn’t providing an objective view, the researchers are."
SuperESL: I was wondering if the problem can be remedied by:
(a) "The Stanford researchers said that in providing an objective review of the current science of organic foods, their goal was to allow people to make informed choices."
OR
(b) "The Stanford researchers said that by providing an objective review of the current science of organic foods, they wish to allow people to make informed choices."
(2) "Fifteen states and the District of Columbia now prohibit teenagers from driving with another teenager, and all but seven states forbid them from driving with more than one.
"[Critique:] Say 'forbid them to drive' rather than 'forbid them from driving.'"
SuperESL: I cannot see what is wrong with 'forbid them from driving'. Is there a subtle difference between 'forbid to' and 'forbid from'?
Thank you.
(1) "The Stanford researchers said that by providing an objective review of the current science of organic foods, their goal was to allow people to make informed choices."
"[Critique:] A dangler: 'their goal' isn’t providing an objective view, the researchers are."
SuperESL: I was wondering if the problem can be remedied by:
(a) "The Stanford researchers said that in providing an objective review of the current science of organic foods, their goal was to allow people to make informed choices."
OR
(b) "The Stanford researchers said that by providing an objective review of the current science of organic foods, they wish to allow people to make informed choices."
(2) "Fifteen states and the District of Columbia now prohibit teenagers from driving with another teenager, and all but seven states forbid them from driving with more than one.
"[Critique:] Say 'forbid them to drive' rather than 'forbid them from driving.'"
SuperESL: I cannot see what is wrong with 'forbid them from driving'. Is there a subtle difference between 'forbid to' and 'forbid from'?
Thank you.
Top answer
1. Both your fixes work. 2.
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1. Both your fixes work.
2. It's idiom. We forbid someone to do something, and we prevent them from doing it. There is no "forbid from".
2. It's idiom. We forbid someone to do something, and we prevent them from doing it. There is no "forbid from".
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SuperESL(1) "The Stanford researchers said ...Just changing 'by' to 'in' won't fix it. What you did in ( b ) is what fixes it.
SuperESL(2) "Fifteen states ...It's not a matter of a subtle difference between 'forbid to' and 'forbid from'. 'forbid from' is just wrong.
CJ
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Thank you for your quick responses.
My Oxford Advanced Learners' Dictionary lists 'forbid from' as one of the proper usages of the word 'forbid.' The dictionary gives this example as an illustration of this particular usage:
"He forbade them from mentioning this subject again."
As for whether the first of my two attempted fixes of example (1) in my original post works,
My Oxford Advanced Learners' Dictionary lists 'forbid from' as one of the proper usages of the word 'forbid.' The dictionary gives this example as an illustration of this particular usage:
"He forbade them from mentioning this subject again."
As for whether the first of my two attempted fixes of example (1) in my original post works,
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Enoon and CalifJim,
I do apologize if I came off as a bit curt in my last post. I certainly did not intend it. I am grateful for the help you've rendered me.
Thank you.
I do apologize if I came off as a bit curt in my last post. I certainly did not intend it. I am grateful for the help you've rendered me.
Thank you.
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SuperESLMy Oxford Advanced Learners' Dictionary lists 'forbid from' as one of the proper usages of the word 'forbid.'I did not know that. I think I've only heard 'forbid to'.
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I told someobody in another forum that 'forbid ... from' was wrong, and then discovered that there are dozens of citations in the Corpus of Contemporary English,
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fivejedjonIt's a usage that passd me by.Shall I say Join the club?
Or Misery loves company?
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Hi guys,
'Forbid . . . from. . . ' sounds fine to this British Canadian.
Clive
'Forbid . . . from. . . ' sounds fine to this British Canadian.
Clive
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