Me/Myself Included .. Part 2

Question

1. Take pity on us poor North Americans, many of whom, myself included, can barely conceal .. **Shouldn't this be "me included" or "including me"?**2. I take pity on us poor North Americans, many of whom, myself included, can barely conceal ..**Because "I" is used, we use "myself included" or "including myself" here, correct?** I say this one is correct. Do you agree?3. Conventions are arbitrary by definition, and the 'rules' in this particular area are a fertile source of confusion not only for non-professional writers, but also for ones who make a living from their writing activities (myself included). **Shouldn't this technically be "me included" or "including me"?Thank you.

Effector · Accepted Answer

1. I can't quite see how either could be incorrect because I don't go by grammar, but seasoned instinct. Still, anything other than "including me" don't 'sound' right (if you get my drift). I wouldn't use anything else if I were to write the sentence (in question) myself.

2. I wouldn't use "including myself"; but "myself included" sounds normal and correct.

3. It's "including me", no doubt about it. That's what I would use.

Goronsky · Answer

Thanks, Effector.

Cool Breeze · Answer

Some may be interested in what Random House Unabridged Dictionary says about myself:

my·self, ****., pl. our·selves
1. (used as an intensive of me or I): I myself will challenge the winner.
2. (used reflexively in place of me as the object of a preposition or as the direct or indirect object of a verb): I gave myself a good rubdown. She asked me for a picture of myself.
3. Informal. (used in place of I or me, esp. in compound subjects, objects, and complements): My wife and myself fully agree. She wanted John and myself to take charge. The originators of the plan were my partner and myself.
4. (used in place of I or me after as, than, or but): He knows as much about the matter as myself.
5. my normal or customary self: After a few days of rest, I expect to be myself again.
[bef. 900; MY + SELF; r. ME meself, OE m" selfum (dat.)]
—Usage. There is no disagreement over the use of MYSELF and other -SELF forms when they are used intensively (I myself cannot agree) or reflexively (He introduced himself proudly). Questions are raised, however, when the -SELF forms are used instead of the personal pronouns (I, me, etc.) as subjects, objects, or complements.
MYSELF occurs only rarely as a single subject in place of I: Myself was the one who called. The recorded instances of such use are mainly poetic or literary. It is also uncommon as a simple object in place of ME: Since the letter was addressed to myself, I opened it. As part of a compound subject, object, or complement, MYSELF and to a lesser extent the other -SELF forms are common in informal speech and personal writing, somewhat less common in more formal speech and writing: The manager and myself completed the arrangements. Many came to welcome my husband and myself back to Washington.
MYSELF and other -SELF forms are also used, alone or with other nouns or pronouns, in constructions after as, than, or but in all varieties of speech and writing: The captain has far more experience than myself in such matters. Orders have arrived for everyone but the orderlies and yourself.
There is ample precedent, going as far back as Chaucer and running through the whole range of British and American literature and other serious formal writing, for all these uses. Many usage guides, however, state that to use MYSELF in any construction in which I or ME could be used instead (as My daughter and myself play the flute instead of My daughter and I, or a gift for my husband and myself instead of for my husband and me) is characteristic only of informal speech and that such use ought not to occur in writing.

CB

Goronsky · Answer

Thanks for that! :-)

Me/Myself Included .. Part 2

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