Is the use of the word indeed acceptable in this context?

Question

Hi, I was just wondering if the use of the word ‘indeed’ is acceptable in the third line? If not, would the word ‘before’ be a better option?

‘Futile’

Heart, shall you love again?
By such rare passions that
Have broken you, indeed,
But not beyond all repair.
For, to you, hope is but
A memory, raven-black,
Lost before the full moon,
Golden light amidst the rain.

Heart, shall you love again?
By such rare passions that
Have broken you before,
But not beyond all repair.
For, to you, hope is but
A memory, now potent,
Reflected in the night stars,
Golden light amidst the rain.

Thanks!

Philip · Accepted Answer

Indeed works here as an intensifier.

Sailsofoblivion · Answer

Ahh, I see! And can I just ask then, which version of this piece to you prefer -

Version 1 is more ambiguous in meaning:

Heart, shall you love again?
By such rare passions that
Have broken you, indeed,
But not beyond all repair.
For, to you, hope is but
A memory, raven-black,
Lost before the full moon,
Golden light amidst the rain.

Version 2, however, is clearer:

Heart, shall you love again?
By such rare passions that
Have broken you before,
But not beyond all repair.
For, to you, hope is but
A memory, now potent,
Reflected in the night stars,
Golden light amidst the rain.

I'm pretty torn between the two. D:

CalifJim · Answer

sailsofoblivionVersion 2, however, is clearer

You may be right about that. Anyway, it has the advantage of matching the R-sounds of the next line ('repair')

Note that from By such rare ... through ... all repair is not a sentence, however. It goes with the first line, thus:

Heart, shall you love again
By such rare passions that
Have broken you before,
But not beyond all repair?

The last line above has one too many syllables. I'd ditch "all".

The second half also suffers from some ambivalence about how many syllables per line it wants.
Some lines end with a strong syllable ('again', 'before', 'repair', 'stars' and 'rain'), but the other three are all weak-syllable endings. Are you sure you want such a mixture of rhythm?

And ending lines with weak words like 'that' and 'but' seems a little unpoetic to my ear.

CJ

Sailsofoblivion · Answer

Thank you, I totally see where you are coming from. Before I had followed the syllabic structure of 6/6/6/7, but I think that 6/6/6/6 is a lot better.

‘Futile’

Heart, shall you love again
By such rare passions that
Have broken you before,
But not beyond repair?
For, to you, hope is but
A memory, now potent,
Reflected in the night stars,
Golden light midst the rain.

Therefore, would "midst" be alright in the last line as it would bring it down to 6 syllables too? I'm not really sure if there is much of a difference between "midst" and "amidst". There is little information available on the subject online.

As for the mixture of rythymn, do you think that it would be acceptable as the poem is asking a question which could go either way? The heart may or may not love again, but by having only three week-syllable endings, the suggestion is made that it will love again...

Thanks a lot for your help!

Dave_anon · Answer

Hi

I agree. The poet is speaking of how she feels in the present - so 'indeed' feels right

The word 'before' would signal that she is also thinking back to other loves; but that isn't the case here, so far as I can see

Dave

CalifJim · Answer

sailsofoblivionI think that 6/6/6/6 is a lot better.

I agree. It would be nice if you could manage that.

sailsofoblivionTherefore, would "midst" be alright in the last line as it would bring it down to 6 syllables too?

Yes. Poetic license would allow an apostrophe, thus: 'midst. The rhythm gets a little off that way, though, and I wonder if 'gold' instead of 'golden' would give you the desired result more effectively.

Gold light amidst the rain.

instead of

Golden light 'midst the rain. (which strikes me as the more clunky of the two)

sailsofoblivionAs for the mixture of rythymn, do you think that it would be acceptable as the poem is asking a question which could go either way?

That sort of thing is always the artist's decision, so, being the artist in this case, you will have to be the judge. Just be careful not to over-analyze and come up with some very obscure reasoning that would never occur to your reader.

CJ

Sailsofoblivion · Answer

Thank you so much once again!

This is what I'm going with:

‘Futile’

Heart, shall you love again
By such rare passions that
Have broken you before,
But not beyond repair?
For, to you, hope is but
A memory, now potent,
Reflected in the night stars,
Gold light amidst the rain.

As for the reasoning, I think it's fairly obvious and it would be difficult to change the poem, without altering it too much. Also, with regards to the use of 'before' instead of 'indeed', would you agree that it's acceptable?

Sorry, I'm a bit of a perfectionist and you clearly know what you are talking about! This is very helpful!

CalifJim · Answer

sailsofoblivionwith regards to the use of 'before' instead of 'indeed', would you agree that it's acceptable?

Yes, provided you're comfortable with the meaning.

sailsofoblivionit would be difficult to change the poem without altering it too much [no comma]

This is a common problem. We get wedded to a particular approach, and we are loathe to throw things out when they are clearly not working, hoping for some kind of inspirational miracle that will fix it all. Unfortunately, sometimes you just have to throw away a few good ideas and rewrite a passage or two . Resisting the need for a rewrite can make you miserable in the long run, so it's best just to do the hard work of getting things exactly as you really want them.

(Just tell yourself that you can use those good ideas in a different way later, perhaps in another poem.

)

CJ

Sailsofoblivion · Answer

I think that 'before' works better given that I use the word 'now' later in the piece.

Yeah, I think the poem is fine, and I do believe that the mixture of strong and weak-syllable endings ties in nicely with the meaning - in a fairly obvious way - so I'm happy enough to leave it as it is.

Thank you very much for your help! I feel like the changes which you have advised have improved the poem considerably!

Sailsofoblivion · Answer

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Is the use of the word indeed acceptable in this context?

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