Jooney Posted 15 years ago
Grammar
Infinitival clause
Hi,
A: Kim decided to go to the party.
B: Kim decided that she would go to the party.
As for "A", the understood subject of the infinitival clause must be co-referential with the subject of the main clause.
When you convert "A" into a close finite clause counterpart, you get "B". And again, it must be the case that the subject of the subordinate clause refers to the subject of the main clause.(so, "she"="Kim")
As for the verb "decide", my question is whether it is possible for the subject of the "that-clause" can be someone other than the subject of the main clause when the conversion is not an issue. For example,
Kim decided that she~. (where "she" is not "Kim)
or
Kim decided that he/they~.
I'd appreciate your help.
A: Kim decided to go to the party.
B: Kim decided that she would go to the party.
As for "A", the understood subject of the infinitival clause must be co-referential with the subject of the main clause.
When you convert "A" into a close finite clause counterpart, you get "B". And again, it must be the case that the subject of the subordinate clause refers to the subject of the main clause.(so, "she"="Kim")
As for the verb "decide", my question is whether it is possible for the subject of the "that-clause" can be someone other than the subject of the main clause when the conversion is not an issue. For example,
Kim decided that she~. (where "she" is not "Kim)
or
Kim decided that he/they~.
I'd appreciate your help.
Top answer
jooney, I don't quite follow you. Is there a special reason for this coversion ? These are different constructions which carry roughly the about same meaning.
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jooney,
I don't quite follow you. Is there a special reason for this coversion ? These are different constructions which carry roughly the about same meaning.
A: Kim decided to go to the party. = She made up her mind ; she is going.
B: Kim decided that she would go to the party. She made up her mind, "would" suggests conditional. So which is it?
I don't quite follow you. Is there a special reason for this coversion ? These are different constructions which carry roughly the about same meaning.
A: Kim decided to go to the party. = She made up her mind ; she is going.
B: Kim decided that she would go to the party. She made up her mind, "would" suggests conditional. So which is it?
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Several constructions are possible that are related to this situation, for example:
Kim decided that he (Kim's friend, Joe) would not be wrong in accompanying her (Kim) to the party.
Kim decided that she (Kim's friend, Jan) would not be wrong in going to the party with him (Joe).
Kim decided that he (Joe) would not be wrong in accompanying Jan to the party.
Kim
Kim decided that he (Kim's friend, Joe) would not be wrong in accompanying her (Kim) to the party.
Kim decided that she (Kim's friend, Jan) would not be wrong in going to the party with him (Joe).
Kim decided that he (Joe) would not be wrong in accompanying Jan to the party.
Kim
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Anon,
The only name appeared in this sentence is only Kim. That's the premise we need to consider.
The only name appeared in this sentence is only Kim. That's the premise we need to consider.
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Hi, DE.
Thank you for your answer.
I'm not sure if "A"and "B" carrry the exact same meaning, but my grammar book says "B" is a close finite clause paraphrase of "A".
And as for chosing an appropriate modal in the "that-clause", I don't think "will" can't be always right because future infinitives can refer to a time before the speech time.
Kim decided a week
Thank you for your answer.
I'm not sure if "A"and "B" carrry the exact same meaning, but my grammar book says "B" is a close finite clause paraphrase of "A".
And as for chosing an appropriate modal in the "that-clause", I don't think "will" can't be always right because future infinitives can refer to a time before the speech time.
Kim decided a week
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The sentence, "Kim decided a week ago to go to the party yesterday.", is comprehensible, from a purely logical point of view: "Kim attended the party yesterday - she had decided that she would attend it a week before yesterday." However, in real life you would never say a sentence like, "Kim decided a week ago to go to the party yesterday." This is considered just too awkward to say in English.
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my question is whether it is possible for the subject of the "that-clause" can to be someone other than the subject of the main clause when the conversion is not an issue.
Yes. It's possible. You may need to set up the context for it, however, and 'decided' frequently means 'concluded' in those contexts.
Yes. It's possible. You may need to set up the context for it, however, and 'decided' frequently means 'concluded' in those contexts.
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Really? That's interesting. Then, I don't understand why all these grammar books come up with all kinds of sentences that native speakers wouldn't even consider saying. Anyway, it is not in my best interest to spend a lot of time on something that is considered to be peripheral. Thanks for your answer.
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Thank you for the reply, CJ.
I have a question. When the verb "decide" has the meaning of "conclude", is a catenative construction possible?
A: Kim decided that he was an idiot.
B: Kim decided him to be an idiot.(?)
I have a question. When the verb "decide" has the meaning of "conclude", is a catenative construction possible?
A: Kim decided that he was an idiot.
B: Kim decided him to be an idiot.(?)
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