I thought / I would think / I would have thought

Question

I'm going to show you three examples.

1. A - Have you got any change?
B - Do I have change? What for?
A - For the vending machine!
I would have thought that was pretty obvious.
: I think it's sufficient to just say,
"I thought that was pretty obvious."
because literally 'I' thought so in the past,
which is a simple fact, but now I don't.
"I would think that as pretty obvious." is possible in the context?
If so, what are the differences among them?

2. Let's say there are two kids playing in the garden
and their mum comes out to tell them in for dinner.
But the kids have gone somewhere,
so she starts going around for them.
In some minutes, she finds the two and says.
"I would have known."
Why does she talk like that? What's the nuance?
I think it will do to say,
"I knew you would be here."
I wonder if "I would know" is a possible subsitute
for the highlighted sentence.
If it could be, what are the differences among the three?

3. A - Was the party great?
B - I don't / wouldn't know. I wasn't there.
: I think if B goes for "I don't know",
it will mean he's just saying the plain fact
that he wasn't there.
What if B replies, "I wouldn't know"?
What's the difference?
And is "I wouldn't have known" possible here?
If so, what are the differences?

I hear 'would do / would have done' structure is
closely related to a hypothetical if,
but I can't seem to figure it out.
I was guessing 'would have done' might mean
speculating about the past,
I've come to think it can't explain 'would do' option.

Help me out with this.
Thank you all.

Grammarfreak · Accepted Answer

This is how these question appear to me.
1. A - Have you got any change? - This sounded to me like you are asking for loose change as a *** would. If you say " do you have change for a newspaper / Coke machine. Everything is clear.
B - Do I have change? What for? - This sounded like an argumentative response. For a simple question, it is not necessary.
A - For the vending machine!
I would have thought that was pretty obvious.
: I think it's sufficient to just say,
"I thought that was pretty obvious." - Yes! in this context, just that.
because literally 'I' thought so in the past,
which is a simple fact, but now I don't.
"I would think that as pretty obvious." is possible in the context?
If so, what are the differences among them?

2. Let's say there are two kids playing in the garden
and their mum comes out to tell them in for dinner.
But the kids have gone somewhere,
so she starts going around for them.
In some minutes, she finds the two and says.
"I would have known." You may have heard " I should have known..."

3. A - Was the party great?
B - I don't / wouldn't know. I wasn't there. Both are acceptable but " I wouldn't know..." is more idiomatic to my ear.
: I think if B goes for "I don't know",

I hear 'would do / would have done' structure is
closely related to a hypothetical if,
but I can't seem to figure it out

If I owed you $50 and I don't have the money to pay you back come due day, and I said " how about taking this tablet and we'll call it even?" You can say " That would do", meaning you don't really want to but under he circumstance, you are willing to accept it.

Would have done - is another deal. It is a conditional statement. e.g.
Wife: Why didn't you mow the lawn? We are having guests over Sat.
Husband: I would have done it if you had told me yesterday.

AlpheccaStars · Answer

A is standing in front of a vending machine. His hands are fishing in his pocket, but the pockets are empty. B walks by.

1.
A - Have you got any change?
B - Do I have any change? What for?
A - For the vending machine! I would have thought that was pretty obvious.

A is responding with a somewhat sarcastic but indirect remark.
He is thinking: If I were you, it would have been obvious to me that the coins were for the vending machine.

2.
A - Have you got any change?
B - Do I have any change? What for?
A - For the vending machine! Isn't it obvious?

A is responding with a sarcastic and direct remark. He is thinking: You idiot! Can't you see this vending machine right here next to me?

Anonymous · Answer

AlpheccaStarsA is responding with a somewhat sarcastic but indirect remark. He is thinking: If I were you, it would have been obvious to me that the coins were for the vending machine.

Thanks, AlpheccaStars!
I think I'm really coming closer to the meaning.
The effect of sarcasicm comes from the hidden if, 'If I were you?'
Then I'm thinking about situations where 'I thought' is replaced with 'I would have thought',
without the sarcastic implication. Does it depend on context?
If so, would you give me some proper lines?
What if A uses 'I thought...'?
I suppose 'I thought that...' simply shows the fact that I had the thought in the past, no more than that.
Or, it's a more polite version of 'I think'.
Does 'Would have thought' sound more distant, deferential or polite than 'I thought'?
I feel the latter version can sound quite direct or something like that.
I want to know exactly what is the difference between 'I would have thought' and 'I thought',
and I'm hoping that you would be teaching me more about it.

And what about the other questions?
I was thinking that you would be explaining them to me, too.

AlpheccaStars · Answer

AnonymousThe effect of sarcasicm comes from the hidden if, 'If I were you?'

Yes, but the tone of voice is very important in detecting degrees of sarcasm.

Anonymous where 'I thought' is replaced with 'I would have thought',without the sarcastic implication. Does it depend on context?

Yes, and the tone of voice.

Mr. Kung runs to conference room 101 because he is late for the monthly staff meeting and his boss highly values punctuality. He opens the door noisily and is shocked to find a meeting of the company's president, chairman and important investors. With a bright red face, he says, "Oh, sorry, I thought our staff meeting was scheduled for this room."

AnonymousAnd what about the other questions?I was thinking that you would be explaining them to me, too.

Your first question took some time to give a detailed and illustrative answer. Please post other questions separately.

I thought / I would think / I would have thought

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