A foreigner's question on British pronunciation

Question

Hello.I've heard (say, in some British songs) the following pronunciation: the vowel in "got" was pronounced in a sort of American manner, more like in "but", for example. That was Blur, by the way. The sound was not even short, it lasted for some time (because it's a song).It's interesting, how you (the British) feel it. Is it felt to be something alien or just one of the British accents? Also, I didn't notice any other occurence of such pronunciation with any other words where a similar thing could happen, say "pot", "stop", etc. I mean I didn't notice it in Blur's singer's speech/singing.Thank you

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]I've heard (say, in some British songs) the following pronunciation: the vowel in "got" was pronounced in a sort of ... where a similar thing could happen, say "pot", "stop", etc. I mean I didn't notice it in Blur's singer's speech/singing.[/nq]
It just seems to be one of those things - pop songs are sung in an American accent. Perhaps it's because pop music originated from the USA, or because it's considered to be more glamorous to sing in an American accent, or because somehow the American accent fits the sound of pop music better. It's such a convention that people barely notice it and it seems to be done unconsciously. On the whole the British people seem to be remarkably tolerant towards the Americanisation of their society, and don't seem to regard it as something alien.

Matthew Huntbach

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Hello. I've heard (say, in some British songs) the following pronunciation: the vowel in "got" was pronounced in a sort ... was Blur, by the way. The sound was not even short, it lasted for some time (because it's a song).[/nq]
Pronunciation in songs can differ quite a lot from that in ordinary speech, particularly in vowel sounds. And that's not just with pop songs. I sing with an orchestra and have been taught that certain vowel sounds can not be distinguished as the note gets higher, so we may be instructed to sing "cart" instead of "cut", for instance.

The American influence does mean that since "got" is often followed by another vowel, particularly "a", the "t" becomes a "d" so "got a" becomes "godda".
Also, "got" is one of those words which is likely to be used in a slang way, whether it means "have", "had", "obtain(ed)", "become" or "became", so it's pronunciation is more prone to vary than less slang terms.
[nq:1]It's interesting, how you (the British) feel it. Is it felt to be something alien or just one of the ... where a similar thing could happen, say "pot", "stop", etc. I mean I didn't notice it in Blur's singer's speech/singing.[/nq]
"Got", being a (mainly transitive) verb, often occurs in the middle of a phrase or sentence, or joining two phrases together, so it occurs in the sort of place where the word may get stretched.

"Pot" and "stop" could be verbs but are more likely to be nouns. They are less likely to be followed by a vowel, so the "t" and "p" are less likely to become "d" and "b". Also they are more likely to occur in a place in a phrase where they are not stretched out so the vowel sound is less likely to have to change.

Damon Albarn (lead singer of Blur and also of Gorillaz) is a Southerner, so his vowels are likely to be longer (in general) than those of a Northerner like me. Also, where he shortens his vowels he is more likely to drop the final "t" in both "got" and "pot" than I am.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Hello. I've heard (say, in some British songs) the following pronunciation: the vowel in "got" was pronounced in a sort ... where a similar thing could happen, say "pot", "stop", etc. I mean I didn't notice it in Blur's singer's speech/singing.[/nq]
I'm not British but I lived in london for a long time. I'm unfamiliar with the song you#re referring to but it's not unusual for British singers to adopt a pseudo-American pronunciation when singing, e.g. a lot of songs by Mick Jagger. Sometimes this can be quite funny when this accent is mixed with a strong regional accent.
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan

Usenet · Answer

Thanks a lot, everybody.
As for me, I can't say, of course, how funny it is, because I don't feel the English language in this way

.
But what I'm sure about is that when Damon Albarn sings, I have no doubt that it is British speech in every single word. And to hear words like got (gut), everbody(everybuddy) I have to analyze what I hear.

This is because what distinguishes, say, British speech from American is, I think, a great deal more than just a couple of differences like in 'fast' or 'got'. I mean, the whole difference is in million little differences.
So he alters his speech only in a few aspects. But the overall impression remains the same, as if he were talking his everyday language.
The singer from Placebo seems to have gone further in this direction

By the way, does something similar take place in ordinary speech as well?

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Thanks a lot, everybody. As for me, I can't say, of course, how funny it is, because I don't feel ... only in a few aspects. But the overall impression remains the same, as if he were talking his everyday language.[/nq]
Yes but you also have to take into account that it is a song, has rhythm, a tempo, bars and stuff. For instance the word(s) "can't" can be as long as you like in a song because of the long 'a' which you can extend as you wish. but the word 'dog' can't do anything other than be a short syllable. So in the choice of lyrics and in their singing the final English result isn't really very English at all, so I'd be careful of trying to improve your language skills this way
[nq:1]By the way, does something similar take place in ordinary speech as well?[/nq]
To a certain extent. 'Gonna' is very comon indeed for 'going to' for instance.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Thanks a lot, everybody. As for me, I can't say, ... the same, as if he were talking his everyday language.[/nq]
[nq:1]Yes but you also have to take into account that it is a song, has rhythm, a tempo, bars and ... which you can extend as you wish. but the word 'dog' can't do anything other than be a short syllable.[/nq]
I don't know about this. there is also the American pronunciation sometimes represented phonetically as "dawg". There was a cartoon program called "Deputy Dawg" when I was a kid. IIRC the chief character had a very slow drawl that elongated just about every stressed syllable (and some unstressed ones).
[nq:1]So in the choice of lyrics and in their singing the final English result isn't really very English at all, so I'd be careful of trying to improve your language skills this way[/nq]
I would agree with this, although it's often good for listening comprehension - but people should beware - the lyrics available on the Internet often deviate quite radically from the text actually sung on the record, CD or cassette. This is also true of lyrics provided with the CD, cassette or record.
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan

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Oh, thank you, but songs are certainly not the primary means of teaching language for me. There is such a beatiful thing as internet radio. BBC provides lots of recorded material as well as live programs, of course. I won't be able to listen to a tenth part of that.

As for lyrics, yes, it's true, indeed. Sometimes one may get quite surprised.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]I don't know about this. there is also the American pronunciation sometimes represented phonetically as "dawg". There was a cartoon ... IIRC the chief character had a very slow drawl that elongated just about every stressed syllable (and some unstressed ones).[/nq]
Shooee, Musky.
There's also the musician Dave "Dawg" Grisman, who used to play with the late Gerry Garcia of the Grateful Dead.
[nq:2]To a certain extent. 'Gonna' is very comon indeed for 'going to' for instance.[/nq]
Especially if you're a valley girl - How's that for thread convergence?

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Oh, thank you, but songs are certainly not the primary means of teaching language for me. There is such a ... material as well as live programs, of course. I won't be able to listen to a tenth part of that.[/nq]
Don't miss "Just A Minute" and "I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue" on Radio 4.
[nq:1]As for lyrics, yes, it's true, indeed. Sometimes one may get quite surprised.[/nq]
Try the Cocteau Twins. They'll surprise you.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Oh, thank you, but songs are certainly not the primary ... be able to listen to a tenth part of that.[/nq]
[nq:1]Don't miss "Just A Minute" and "I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue" on Radio 4.[/nq]
Ok. Radio 4 have been my favorite one. The most talking radio. Even more, "intelligent speech" if I remember the wording right. Sounds attractive. And there really are very interesting programs, not only from the language point of view.
[nq:2]As for lyrics, yes, it's true, indeed. Sometimes one may get quite surprised.[/nq]
[nq:1]Try the Cocteau Twins. They'll surprise you.[/nq]
I've heard a couple of their albums. But never read their lyrics on the internet. Well, I believe you there's something wrong with them.

A foreigner's question on British pronunciation

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